it doesn't make sense, but james carville and i will be debating it on "the factor". don't forget to set your dvr. you'll never miss an episode of "the five." we'll be back tomorrow. the benghazi uproar gets louder. a retired general adds his voice to the others who contend there was never a connection between the benghazi terror attacks and an anti-muslim video. this is "special report." good evening. i'm bret baier. another former military official said the obama administration knew from the beginning the benghazi terror attacks were not the result of outrage over a video. we have fox team coverage tonight, ed henry at the house with another tough day of spin for the president's top spokesman. but we begin with chief intelligence correspondent katherine harrage and more testimony on capitol hill.

>> nearly 20 months after the attack, the administration's explanations about who knew what and when are beginning to unravel in a very public way. the testimony laid bare uncomfortable facts. >> this was a hostile action. this was no demonstration gone terribly awry. >> retired brigadier general robert lovell, a deputy intelligence director for the africa command testified that seven hour noose the benghazi assault in germany, they knew there was no connection to a protest or an internet video. >> it was early on in the evening of september 11th. >> before 3:15 a.m. >> absolutely. >> within hours, sources tell fox a target list was assembled and lovell testified a terrorist group with known ties to al qaeda was blamed. >> it was -- we felt it was -- >> lovell's testimony is consistent with the september 12th e-mail from state department official beth jones to secretary of state hillary clinton's closest aides,

including sheryl mills, that the libyan ambassador was told -- was responsible. what's been overlooked is hours later on 10:00 p.m. september 11th even before the attack was over mrs. clinton sent out a press release directly linking the video to the benghazi violence. while mrs. clinton waes statement was out of sync with the intelligence it was reinforced three daze later by the ben rhodes e-mail which critics say intended to shape the public discussion of a terrorist attack. lovell testified that the state department did not respond quickly that night. >> it's not what they did in that particular situation. it's what they didn't do. they didn't come forward with stronger requests for action. >> what was the mood in the room? what was the feeling? was it to save our people? >> it was desperation there to be able to -- >> it was what? >> desperation there to gain situational awareness and be able to do something. >> lovell was not in the operational chain of command, a point emphasized by one committee democrat. >> there might be some who, for

various reasons, would like to distort your testimony and suggest that you're testifying that we could have, should have done a lot more than we did because we had capabilities we simply didn't utilize. >> that is not my testimony. >> thank you very much. >> but lovell said repeatedly it's about the future and rebuilding the trust lost in benghazi. >> we should have done more, and we owe it to the memory of those four people that are fallen. >> the house speaker issued a statement today that secretary kerry should come to the hill to testify unless more documents are provided in response to those outstanding subpoenas. bret? >> catherine, thank you. the push to get answers on benghazi is a acause not only kept alive by fox news and a handful of other immediate 0 area outlets. now the mainstream media is getting involved as well and at times it's getting intense. here's chief white house correspondent ed henry. >> day two of white house press secretary jay carney under fire, sticking to his story that the key e-mail from ben rhodes used to brief susan rice for the

sunday talk shows was not about benghazi. >> the e-mail was about protests around the region. >> even as republicans pounced, charging the credibility of president obama and his top aides is on the line. >> it is not only now the needless and tragic deaths of four americans but it is an obvious cover-up by the white house. >> carney pushed back hard on that charge, saying the only part of the e-mail mentioning benghazi was taken from cia talking points. the press secretary also seemed to blame the barrage of questions on fox this week, even though several news networks have pressed yarn. >> we don't know. we're investigating it. >> do you need a copy of the cia talking points? the only thing in that e-mail that refers to benghazi is a cut and paste from the talking points which many to your disappointment and your boss' disappointment turned out to be produced by the cia. >> beyond that attack, carney's point is rhodes' e-mail was based on nan partisan analysis

and thus was not an effort to shield the president from fallout over a terror attack in the 2012 election. while the rhodes' e-mail prepping rice for the sunday shows stress she was not talking politics, the memo downplayed talk of terror and advised rice in the preelection tv appearances to focus on the anti-muslim video and tell viewers, quote, people have come to trust that president obama provides leader shap that is statesman like and steady. >> if it's not about benghazi, why opportune it over in a benghazi suit? >> you'd have ask the state department. >> the state department is run by secretary john kerry and is not a rogue agency. officials were responding to a lawsuit from the conservative group judicial watch for benghazi documents that had been subpoenaed by congressional republicans but were not originally turned over by the white house. >> now they need to distinguish this document from all the other benghazi documents and the way to do that is to pretend it wasn't about benghazi. >> now, jay carney also noted that thousand fz dumtds on

benghazi have been turned over to congressional investigators, though speaker boehner suggested he may bring back secretary kerry to find out why this e-mail was not turned over. bret? >> ed, thank you. let's get more on the benghazi situation. tommy volunteer tore is former spokesman for the national security council during the obama administration. thanks for joining us. you were at the white house september 11, 2012. >> yes. >> let me tart there. a lot of focus has been on this ben rhodes e-mail. but let me start september 11th. who tells hillary clinton at 10:00 p.m. to put out this statement that says some have sought to justify this vicious behavior, the announcement has happened about the benghazi aattack, in response to inflammatory material posted on the internet. the united states deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, our commitment goes to the religious tolerance. there is no justification of violent acts of this time. at 10:00 p.m. eastern time, this

is still going on, this attack. so where does that come from? >> i don't know. but let's talk about what actually happened with the attack. there was sort of one phase of the attack a long period of calm followed by another. so let me just try to give you a sense of what we were thinking that day. we didn't know definitively that the ambassador was dead until late that evening. we were unbelievably nervous about his safety and well-being of others at that facility. we had witnessed a series of protests throughout the world where millions of people literally were taking to the streets, were overrunning our embassy in cairo because of this video. >> sure. >> and there were individuals quoted who were on the scene that night saying they were there because of the video. >> but the guys who have testified including general lovell today said they knew right away and they put it up the chain. >> respectfully, i don't think that's -- >> the intelligence community has essentially said the same thing.

>> respectfully to the general, that's just not accurate. there's no way anyone knew d definitively the motivations of the attackers that evening. i don't know that we know definitively today. what i've seen in a number of outlets reporters talking to people on the scene that night, extremists, bad people no doubt who said they were there because of the video. >> let me be clear. you're trying to say there's some aspect of protest to it still? >> i didn't say protest. they were upset because of inflammatory video and decided to do whatever they did. >> you're still saying it was because of the video. >> they're quoted in the newspaper saying that's why they were there. >> tommy, since then there's been all this testimony about a military operation, very skilled people who can operate mortars with precision and that it was -- even mike morell testified that his analysts in langley were wrong and he should have gone to guys on the ground. cia station chief said it was an attack day one, first hour. >> sure. you make good points. i am not saying that this was a

peaceful protest run amok. that was dead wrong. we got that wrong and i don't know how we got it to wrong. but we did. we've corrected it since. what i'm saying is people on the scene that night, individuals involved in the attack said they were there because of the video. let's take them at face value over darrell issa or somebody in washington. >> 14 days later, you have to know that 14 days have passed and you now know that it's a terrorist attack because everybody on the ground has gone up the chain. the e-mail said it's not an escalation of a protest from the station chief. the president goes to the u.n. september 25th, he says this. >> there are no words that excuse the killing of innocents. there's no video that justifies an attack on an embassy. >> all right, who is vetting that? >> bret, there were multiple attacks on embassies. our cairo embassy was overrun. >> but nobody else died.

>> justifying the deaths of innocents doesn't just mean americans. >> countless people died in protests across the region during that time. >> he's referring to everyone but the americans. >> washington has this collective amnesia about the state of the world at this time period. >> other people say you have amnesia. >> there was a protest in australia, for god's sake. protests across the planet because of this video. >> but people in america would probably be talking about the americans, including the u.s. ambassador who was killed. >> sure. >> the things that were happening around the globe, that probably took precedence, don't you agree? >> sure. the ambassador's death, the three others who were killed that day, that is a tragedy. what we should be worried about is making sure that never happens again. instead, this ridiculous political game about talking points. >> ridiculous? don't you think it's -- >> creating a cover-up. >> just try to be straight here. isn't it ridiculous that this particular e-mail did not get released originally?

>> yes. >> why did it take a judge to get this ben rhodes e-mail snf i don't know. i bet every single person in the white house wished that e-mail had been had released earlier. i do too because it tells us nothing new. it tells us what we said privately is what we said publicly because that's what we thought had occurred. ben's e-mail clearly referenced protests plural because there were countless across the world. >> but you're a communications expert. if you're prepping an official for a sunday show, you're probably going to prep on the biggest question of the sunday show. >> yes. >> which probably, maybe, would have been the u.s. ambassador and three others who died. >> that's fair. and i was among people who prepped susan rice. we talked about the protests were front and center in ben's e-mail because there was still concern about additional violence in the region. >> let's go to the talking points. >> it was friday prayers in a number of countries like pakistan and we were extremely worried. >> the 14th is the day you're talking about. >> yes. >> according to the e-mails and

the time line, the cia circulates new talking points after they've removed the mention of al qaeda and then at 6:21 the white house, you, add a line about the administration warning about september 10th of social media reports calling for demonstrations. true? >> i believe so. >> did you also change attacks to demonstrations in the talking points? >> maybe. i don't really remember. >> you don't remember? >> dude, this was two years ago. we're still talking about the most mundane thing. >> dude, it's what everybody is talking about. >> we're talking about the process of editing talking points. that's what bureaucrats do all day long. your producers edit scripts multiple times. >> attacks to demonstrations, did you do that? >> no. what is the question? did i edit -- >> in the cia talking points, it was edited from attacks to demonstrations. >> no. michael morell testified about what he change and what was changed in those e-mails. in the whole process of that. >> but the talking points went through the public affairs

people, which is kind of unique. >> but these are the most well-understood and discussed talking points in the history of talking points. and michael morell testified that he took them back, didn't like them and changed them. >> here's also what he says in that testimony. >> it was probably days later that i read what she said on the shows. >> and what was your reaction when you finally did? >> my reaction was twofold. one was that what she said about the attacks evolving spontaneously from a protest was exactly what the talking points said and it was exactly what the intelligence community analysts believed. when she talked about the video, my reaction was that's not something that the analysts have attributed this attack to. >> so they didn't say video. and cia didn't say it. it came from where? >> guys quoted in newspapers saying that's why they were

there. >> the white house. >> no. it came from the newspapers. >> but somebody has to prep susan rice to get to video. the only thing we see doing that is ben rhodes' e-mail. >> no. >> jay carney says that e-mail is not about benghazi at all. but the only place the video comes up is ben rhodes' e-mail. >> no. the place the video came up is in the dozens of countries where people were protesting because of the video. maybe in this alternate reality where there's a giant cover-up, the only place on the planet where no one cared about this planet was benghazi. but i think a reasonable individual at that time would think those attacks might have been motivated because of the innocence of muslims video. >> well, a reasonable individual testified today, brigadier general lovell, a one-star general, well respected because he's served the country very well. this is what he said today. >> we didn't know how long this would last when we became aware of the distress, nor did we completely understand what we had in front of us, be it a kidnapping, rescue, recovery, protracted hostile engagement or

any or all of the above. but what we did know quite early on was that this was a hostile action. this was no demonstration gone terribly awry. to the point of what happened, the facts led to the conclusion of a terrorist attack. >> he says they knew right away. >> yeah. as i said earlier, this notion that a peaceful protest erupted and turned into something else was wrong. we got that wrong. the intelligence community got that wrong. that's been corrected. >> here is a guy who was watching realtime monitoring, the head of intelligence for afr i con, watching realtime sending this up the chain. he says this. >> if you think you can design the motives of an attacker via a drone seed, that is a bit of a stretch. >> people from the ground testified they knew where the ambassador was, they were military in their precision. it was not guys coming to protest. they had mortgage 0 ars and heavy weapons. >> i was in the situation room that night. we didn't know where the ambassador was definitively.

>> was the president in the situation room? >> no. the fact that your network at one time testifiy e said that h video feed of the attack as it was gone yon going is part of what i think is a pattern of inaccurate -- >> where was the president? >> in the white house. let me finish my statement. the notion that we could divine motives from a drone feed i think is wrong. and also i think this idea that the military had the capability to rescue those individuals but chose not to i think is extremely unfair to the military. and admirable mullen said basically the opposite. >> in the arb report. >> right. >> where was the president? >> in the white house. >> he wasn't in the situation room. >> at what point in the evening? >> any point in the evening. >> it's well known that when the attack was first briefed to him it was in the oval office and he was updated constantly. and during that briefing he told tom donilon and his joint chiefs

and sek dev to move all military into the region. >> when hillary clinton talks to him at 10:00 p.m., he's where? >> i don't have a atracking device on him. >> you were in the situation room and he wasn't there. >> i was in the white house. >> the president wasn't in the situation room. >> not in the room i was in. let's just be clear. you don't have to be in the situation room to monitor an intelligence situation. the pbd is in the oval office. >> we've never heard where the president was. no one has said. hillary clinton calls the president at 10:00 p.m. and then soon after that we get this statement blaming the video. do you know, again, where that came from? >> same answer as a minute ago. i do not know what the specific language for the state department's statement came from. >> tommy, i really appreciate your time. i want to end with this, the politics. you talked about the politics on another network. we played it for senator lindsey graham. take a listen. >> lindsey graham is trying to

fend off a tea party primary. that's why he seized on this issue with an open joke of his up on capitol hill. people know why he's doing this. so there are certainly politics in all of this. >> if i am doing something wrong for political reasons, i should have egg on my face and i should be punished by the people of south carolina. if what he is saying is a bold-faced lie and that i'm correct that this administration hid the truth from the american people about a coordinated terrorist attack because they were more worried about the president's reelection than telling the truth to the american people about why four people died, then need to be held accountable. >> your response. >> my response is it's se self-evident that lindsey graham is playing politic was this issue. just this morning i got an e-mail from his list serve from him trumpeting his appearance on this show last night about benghazi. he thinks this is good politics for him. that's why he talks about it all the time. that's what politicians do. that's fine. but let's just be honest about it, call it what it is.

>> so you think there's nothing left to learn about benghazi the country should move on. >> here's what i think we should talk about today, every single day until it's fixed. what is being done to make sure this never happens again. are the arb recommendations being implemented? are our individuals abroad safer? i think the talking points have been talked until there's nothing left to say. >> finally, did you brief susan rice before that appearance on the sunday shows? >> there were people on a call as referenced in ben's e-mail and i was one of them. >> tommy, we really appreciate you coming on. >> thanks for having me. join us this weekend for more on benghazi. friday at 9:00 p.m. eastern, saturday at 10:00 p.m. and sunday at 9:00 eastern. don't miss it. up next, we will finally have numbers on who's paying their obamacare premiums and who isn't. first here's what our fox affiliates are covering. in orlando, an apparent gas explosion at a jail that left two inmates dead and hundreds

injured. the blast created a chaotic scene as inmates were bussed to hospitals and nearby jails when the crippled building was evacuated. in los angeles, mayday marches downtown, marchers pushing congress to pass immigration reform. this is a live look at philadelphia from fox 29, the big story there tonight, heavy rains that sent rivers and streams over their banks flooding low lying areas in and around the city forcing evacuations of several apartment complexes. that's tonight's live look outside the beltway from "special report." we'll be right back.

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angle follows the money again tonight. >> reporter: republicans in congress say they did what the administration said it could not do, find out how many people actually paid their first month's premium. >> two-thirds of those made the first month's payment. now, what we don't know is how many of those have continued to make that payment and are successfully enrolled. >> reporter: the information from republicans came from contacting 160 insurance companies listed on health care.gov for the federal xhachks and getting payment rates as of april 15th. the administration argues some didn't have to pay until may 1st and that several insurers had reported higher payment numbers. >> it doesn't match the public comments by insurance company executives. most of which have indicated that they're seeing 80% to 90% of their enrollees pay the premiums. >> if you were a business owner and you had a accounts receivable and 20% of your accounts on a monthly basis did not pay their bill, you'd say,

we've got a problem here. >> reporter: some state networks have reported even lower numbers, some about the same. and as they prepare for the next open enrollment period beginning in november, some exchanges are undergoing massive changes such as oregon whose web site couldn't sign up a single customer. >> their health exchange has been a disaster, and they're asking the federal government to come in and take it over completely. >> reporter: and yet along with other troubled exchanges, including vermont,s ma massachusetts nevada and maryland used a lot of federal money. >> the federal government spend about $1 billion on those five state exchanges and none of them are likely to work very well ever. so that's a lot of wasted taxpayer money. >> reporter: maryland's aexchange imploded and decided to adopt the system used by connecticut but says it will need $40 million to $50 million to cover the cost. officials refuse to say where the money will come from, but taxpayers somewhere will pay. >> if we're going to end up paying twice for the exchange for maryland once through the federal exchange system and the second time the one that failed

at the state level. >> in all the state exchanges cost taxpayers almost 4.2 billion to build and will cost more to fix. on the number of people fapayin their first premium, officials didn't like the republican numbers but said today they won't have their own until later this year. bret? >> jim, thank you. the people who cover the obama administration up close are giving the president a failing grade for transparency. politico magazine surveyed white house journalists and only 5% of them says president obama team is more forming coming than that of president bush. 41% says president bush's operation was more open, about half were not sure or said they were about the same. a vote on a contempt resolution against former irs bureaucrat lois lerner will be held in the house next week. that comes from majority leader eric cantor. lerner has refused to talk to congress about what she knows concerning the agency's targeting of conservative groups. she has invoked her fifth amendment right against self

incrimination. stocks today were mixed, the dow lost 22, s and p gave back a quarter, the nasdaq gained 13. you are paying more at the pump than you were a month ago. aaa says the national average for regular is $3.69 a gallon, a month ago $3.56. not every world leader is as comfortable with the selfie craze as president obama. and a threat from russia concerning american astronauts at the international space station. "the grapevine" is next. and a pasta. all on one plate. three delicious choices. all for $15.99 for a limited time only! come sea food differently today! marge: you know, there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious, and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips.

now some news from the political grapevine. our president and vice president have seemingly jumped on the selfie craze sweeping the nation and the world. with everyone from celebrities to the pope to the dalai lama posing for smartphone pictures. but not every world leader is on board with the constant snapping of pictures. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu recently went on a rant when apparently his picture was taken as he waited for a tv interview. quote, what do you get out of all these pictures, he asked in a video posted on youtube. i don't understand this new world. when do they have time to live? realizing that he is in the minority, the prime minister concludes, quote, i'm the only one here without all these electronic devices. i'm a free man, and you are all slaves. a russian government official facing sanctions from the u.s. says nasa may need to use a trampoline to get its astronauts into space. the head of russia's defense

ministry was sanctioned for his involvement in the incursion into the ukraine. he responded with an apparent threat to end russia's agreement with nasa, quote, i propose the united states deliver its astronauts to the iss with the help of a trampoline. in reality, disbanding the partnership is unlikely. russia depends on the u.s. for a large portion of the funding for its space program. and finally, a new low for property value in a detroit suburb. the town of warren, michigan, is selling 136 lots of land for $1 each. the mayor says the only catch is they will only be offered to people who already own adjacent properties. and the buyers have to pay the closing costs. the mayor calls it a win-win deal since the city will no longer have to cut the grass or shovel snow on those lots. new ammunition tonight for critics who say the obama administration's environmental protection agency is more about politics than science. it has to do with the tug-of-war

over a precious area of alaska for both businesspeople and environmentalists. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel has the fascinating details. >> good evening. the documents obtained through congressional sources show the epa was actively working with environmental groups and others to try and kill the gold mine project even before its owners filed the paperwork. the location is bristol bay in alaska, which the epa estimates produces about half the world's population of sock eye salmon and is a highly valuable area for commercial fisherman. but the region is also rich in commodities and those behind the pebble project believe there is a massive amount of gold and coper to be mined. it was officially blocked by the agency in february. this it document from 2010 suggests the epa pushed for a proactive veto before the army corps of engineers could conduct an environmental impact assessment. it advises top epa officials that it's never been done before in the history of the clean water act or cwa.

there would be immediate political backlash and notes risk of litigation. a house oversight lawmaker says this shows the epa was far from neutral. >> there was never any intention for epa to allow this mine to go forward. they have looked for a way for the last five years to kill this mine. >> an agency spokesperson tells fox, quote, the epa has used this 404 c authority before in a recent court case upheld the legality of issuing a decision before permit application. we're open to more research particularly peer reviewed quality science that the company or state submits. internal e-mails also reveal epa officials coaxed indian tribes and fishing groups to raise opposition to the mine project. >> this is fairly obvious this is a biased party coming in saying we don't want mines and so how can we work the community to try to drum up some sort of opposition to oppose the mine, rather than how can we work with the mine soz we can have mining and fishing. >> instead, the obama

administration picked fishging as its winner and mining as its loser. >> mike, thanks. the pentagon says reports of sexual assault in the military are up 50%. officials say this had is the result of a campaign to get more victims to come forward, not an increase in actual crimes. they do say there needs to be a greater emphasis on getting male victims to speak up. the aassociated press report that males account for only 14% of the reports filed last year. a retired general says early on it was known throughout the administration that the benghazi attacks were not about a video. plus my interview with the former spokesman of the nsc. we'll talk about it all with the panel, next. e very st in taste, freshness, and nutrition? it's eb. want to give them more vitamins, omega 3s, and less saturated fat? it's eb. eggland's best eggs. eb's. the only eggs that make better taste and better nutrition...

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what we did know early on was this was a hostile action.

this was no demonstration gone terribly awry. to the point of what happened, the facts led to the conclusion of a terrorist attack. the afr i com j-2 was focused on attribution. the attacks became attributable very soon after the event. >> the cia station chief is quoted as saying, quote, not not an escalation of protest, end quote. would you agree or disagree with the cia station chief's analysis? >> that it is not not an escalation? absolutely. it was an attack. there was a lot of looking to the state department for what it was they wanted, and in the deference to the libyan people and the sense of deference to the desires of the state department in terms of what they would like to have. >> did they ever tell you to go save the people in benghazi? >> not it to my knowledge, sir. >> retired brigadier general robert lovell, deputy intelligence director for afrry com, talking about the j h-2, tt

is that position. he was watching the night of september 11th from germany realtime as everything was going down in benghazi, and he was reporting it up the chain realit time. he says they knew right away that this was not tied to the video and that it was a terrorist attack. in fact, he had it tied to a group with ties to al qaeda, and they had a target list assembled in the first hours, according to the general. let's bring in our panel, george will, mara elise, and charles krauthammer. george? >> among the new questions are old questions in new lights. there's first the testimony of general lovell, which was very affecting because he ae's obvioy deeply distressed about what happened. i gather the military will now have to say whether or not he was in a position to know all these things and in its zer size of its othersight functions this had is one of the things congress should ask about.

the military questions, what assets did we have? could we have done more? is his assessment right? i assume there will be real dissent in the military. the most riveting thing i've seen is in catherine harrage saying that even before the attack was over mrs. clinton sent out that press release. mr. veetor in his discussion with you said, well, there was a pause in the attack. there was an attack and a pause and then it resumed again, and because there had been some turmoil in the region associated with the internet video, it was reasonable for her to say that. so then the next question is, three days later when the bodies come back to andrews air force base and she doubles down on the internet video saying to one of the parents of the dead americans that we will arrest and prosecute the perpetrator of the video, did nothing happen in those three days to thoroughly undermine this narrative to which they were still clinging?

>> mara? >> yeah, i think that what happened today and the last couple of days shows this is an issue that's not going to go away and it kind of got a new lease on life i thought. it's something that will certainly dog hillary clinton. now, barack obama doesn't have to run again, and i don't know what further trouble this is going to cause him. but this is a story that is going to be on the campaign in 2016, and i think it got a new lease on life because especially with the ben rhodes e-mail, whether or not it was about other things other than benghazi protests, what it paints a picture of is a white house determined to spin as best as it could and to put out a story that was the most advantageous to the president. doesn't mean that they knew it was a terrorist attack and had nothing to do with the video and purposely lied. but you see the picture of a white house spinning. >> to that point, it has been an interesting couple of days watching jay carney in that briefing room deal with not just ed henry but other reporters

from many other networks. take a listen to this exchange today. >> if the e-mail was not about benghazi you said yesterday and you say again today, why did the white house turn it over to a conservative group seeking information about benghazi? >> you would have to ask the state department about how they responded to requests. i would again point you to the fact that -- i mean, all you have to do is read it, ed, right? >> he went on to talk about the talking points. but that line that the e-mail was not about benghazi, i mean, that just can't sit well in that briefing room, can it, mara? >> no. it might have been about other things including benghazi, but it was part of the benghazi request. >> the line after the line that's focused on about the video says, to show, telling susan rice, we need to convey to show that we will be resolute in bringing people who harm americans to justice. now, there were no other americans harmed in any other protest around the world. >> right. clearly he was referring to the

incidents there. i just think that, you know, this was something that could have had something to do with the video, the terrorists could have used it as a pretext. but this now has a lot of levels, and the only thing that's missing is evidence that the white house absolutely knew that everything they were being told about the video at the time was not true. they do have the cia still to rely on to say, look, these talking points were sent to us by the intelligence community. >> the key part is mike morell said he relied on analysts in langley as opposed to people on the ground. he chose to discount what his own cia station chief was saying on the ground. that's kind of interesting. >> look, i think what's really happened here is what mara says, this e-mail has sort of reopened this in the same way that in watergate it was this sort of quiet, private discovery that there were tapes in the white house. it also died down, and i think richard nixon would still be president of the united states

today, by hook or by crook, had the tapes not been discovered. and that's what restarted. this e-mail from the white house, that's what everybody had said, is there a way to -- is there any involvement here of the white house which makes it obviously a political issue, the reelection of the president overriding the truth. and that watching carney today, they don't pay him enough. on the first question, if this was a release of information for a request on benghazi, how can you tell us it isn't about benghazi, he simply said, i have no idea, ask state department. but then when you point out the fact that this is the only time -- well, it isn't the only. it's one of the rare times when you get a high administration official going on all five shows. it happened only once in the bush administration. it never happened in the clinton

administration. and if they had not been about benghazi, does anybody imagine she would have been on the five shows because of a demonstration in cryer? that's ridiculouridiculous. the briefing, the appearance, it was all about benghazi. of course everything in the memo is about benghazi. and when carney denies it, he simply looks foolish. >> i didn't pull the sound bite, but a few weeks ago you said right here on this panel that republicans should move on, that they should kind of leave benghazi alone, that it was a dead end. have you changed your perspective? >> yes. because of the appearance of this memo. to me, it's the equivalent of what was discovered with the nixon tapes. the point is that republicans have done a terrible job in building the case. even today i have to say, the questioning was disjointed. it was not organized. if they had appointed a special committee a long time ago the way it was done in watergate, we

would have had answers on this and the country wouldn't be tired. but what i did say was the reason it would not go anywhere is because the lack of interest of the other media. and what's changed now and we saw it in the briefing room is i think the other media are somewhat embarrassed by the fact that, unlike fox, they allowed themselves to be stoned and aspun and rolled for a year and a half and now the memo appears and it's obvious that they missed the story. >> coming up, we'll talk about that interview with tommy veetore, former spokesman for the nsc.

test test. test test.

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attacks to demonstrations to in the talking points? >> maybe, i don't really remember. >> you don't remember? >> dude, this is like two years ago. we are still talking about the most mundane process. >> everybody is talking about it? >> we are talking about the process of editing talking points. that's what bureaucrats do all day long. your producers edit scripts multiple times. >> that was interesting. former nsc spokesman tommy detour. we are back with our panel. george? >> well, that may be what bureaucrats do all the time but bureaucrats don't set policy. and what we are talking about here is someone set a policy by changing words. now, i am prepared to believe that more things in washington are explained by confusion and fatigue than by conspiracy granting all that and assuming assuming thers lots of both on the night of september 11th when reports were stepping in from benghazi and tripoli and the statehouse. granted confusion and granted fatigue, what really

interested me was the durelt of durability about the story of the video. it implies premeditation and calculation. if premeditation and calculation went into the repeating of this three days later at andrews air force base. later by the president at the u.n., then you have what can be called not just normal government confusion and incompetence but you have mendacity. >> marah, that interview? >> yeah. i thought the strongest thing that the white house has on heir side and i think tommy detour brought this up today is that they were relying on the cia. it's very possible as you said that the cia decided to completely ignore the reports from the field. but, they had the cia as the source of the most of the content of the talking points. >> it did go through the public affairs which he conceded and he sort of conceded it might have went through him. >> they made it as positive as possible for the

president. there is no doubt that the instinct of everybody in the white house in an election year is to not expose the president to any harm. he said al qaeda was on the run. they certainly don't want to do anything, they don't want to have him stand out there and say we just got attacked by al qaeda affiliate. the question is did they absolutely know that it had nothing to do with a demonstration and purposely lied or not? which we don't know yet. >> we learned a few things, charles. we learned that the president was not in the situation room. tommy detour says he was not in the situation room. the president was not there i asked him where he was. he said i don't have a detector on him he is some place in the white house. i was one room. i have been in there it's not a big place. if the president is there, you know i think the dude told you a lot of stuff. reopens a real issue that i think has been buried which is where was the president during all of these hours? we have yet to get an

accounting. you don't have to put a bracelet on his ankle in order to know where the president is everyone knows where he is. we know he spent an hour on the phone with the prime minister of israel about a completely different issue in the middle of this attack about the jerusalem issue and the convention. we know he was on the phone with the secretary of state. we know that immediately afterwards a statement has issued from the state department about the video. i mean, is this what the department is doing in the middle of the attack. the state department says worried about a request from the state department. the head of the state department is on the phone worrying about the public relations? and the statements? who is in command and who is in charge. who gave orders to do or not to do and that, i think, is a real issue here that has been completely, i, this ignored. where was the president? what did he do and when did he do it? >> george, charles mentioned the other reporters pressing now today cnn, cbs, abc,

"new york times," yesterday it was a briefing room full of questions. we will see where the coverage goes. >> it is a sign of a, how hard it is to change the agenda to it washington to force something into the conversation but how possible it is to do that benghazi is alive until we need more legs to the story another shoe to drop, something. the rhodes email wasa shoe and probably another shoe in the closet. >> i only have 10 seconds is there frustration. >> there is always frustration. >> i know i was there. >> now particularly? >> yeah, i think there is frustration i think that over time on many issues when you don't get answers the frustration builds up. >> or you get answers like why is this not about benghazi, since it was a benghazi release and he says ask the state department. that's worse than

frustration. >> please join us this weekend for a special work at the latest benghazi developments as we have been saying there is a loft them. fox news reporting an hour. it can be seen friday at 9:00 p.m. eastern. saturday 10:00 p.m. eastern and again sunday 9:00 p.m. eastern. you don't want to miss this. that's it for the panel. stay tuned for a man who tries to make the best of a bad situation. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] great rates for great rides. geico motorcycle, see how much you could save. [ male announcer ] great rates for great rides. we cannot let the fans down. don't worry! the united states postal service will get it there on time with priority mail flat rate shipping.

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finally tonight, while a fire was blazing. it was who was best the reporter or the -- >> smoke blowing everywhere ask the folks to stay inside. >> folks, do you live around here. >> you are super pretty. do you want to go on a date sometime. >> i am live from fox la are you evacuating. >> down the street. just come out to take a look at the fire. >> what do you think of it. >> pretty cool. >> want to go on a date? that's tough timing. courtney friel handling that

well. thanks for inviting us into your home tonight. that is it for "special report," fair, balanced and unafraid. greta goes "on the record" right now. >> i'm greta van susteren, this is "on the record" and up first damage control at the white house. >> the talking points that ambassador rice used again produced by the intelligence community for members of congress and in the interest of having everybody use the same information, used by the administration and ambassador rice on those sunday shows were divulged and like so many of the conspiracy theories that have been promulgated by republicans from the beginning of this, this one turned out to be bogus. >> oh, jay, don't go there. now, that is dumb. don't make fun of conspiracy theories when you are up to your eyeballs in not answering questions and providing information. yeah, there is a mystery. maybe a conspiracy since it